Languages you should, and should not, know

TheSpaniard
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby TheSpaniard Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:35 pm

It's not, all languages have roots and they all have an origin. While Drow and Elven are similar, and you may be able to understand a few words here or there, you wouldn't be able to hold full blown conversations if you didn't speak either language. Think Spanish, French, Italian, and Portuguese have Latin roots, so similarities but different languages and you can't understand full nuanced conversations unless you know each specific one.

What the sourcebook says about dialects and Drow, is that each Underdark Drow city has a different dialect , and so there are words or concepts that vary depending on which Drow city you hail from. Think Spanish from Spain vs Mexico vs Honduras , etc..
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:46 pm

It's not, all languages have roots and they all have an origin. While Drow and Elven are similar, and you may be able to understand a few words here or there, you wouldn't be able to hold full blown conversations if you didn't speak either language. Think Spanish, French, Italian, and Portuguese have Latin roots, so similarities but different languages and you can't understand full nuanced conversations unless you know each specific one.

What the sourcebook says about dialects and Drow, is that each Underdark Drow city has a different dialect , and so there are words or concepts that vary depending on which Drow city you hail from. Think Spanish from Spain vs Mexico vs Honduras , etc..

I'm sorry but you are wrong on all counts. YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF 'DIALECT'. Spanish and French ARE NOT dialects of Roman Latin. In the UK Geordie is a dialect of english. Geordie can be difficult to understand but the words are MOSTLY the same - they just sound different. Once you understand the differences in how they sound its easy to understand the dialect - you are not learning another language.

Im going to quote a second time from the FR Underdark Sourcebook:

From Underdark Sourcebook:
"Languages: Drow speak Undercommon and a dialect of Elven that features many words and constructions borrowed from their Underdark neighbours. They also have a unique sign language..."


According to this THERE IS NO DROW LANGUAGE.

I would actually argue that any elves (and anyone who speaks elvish) in Skullport SHOULD TAKE DROW as an RP way of showing that they will more or less understand the DIALECT. They could RP not understanding everything and only understanding the basics.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... h_language
"Dialects can be defined as "sub-forms of languages which are, in general, mutually comprehensible""
TheSpaniard
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby TheSpaniard Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:59 pm

Please reread what I wrote, I was comparing different languages in the real world (Spanish vs Italian), to different languages in FR ( Elven vs Drow).

And comparing dialects of the real world (Mexican Spanish vs Castellano, Spanish from Spain) to FR dialects (Drow spoken from Guallidurth vs Drow spoken from Menzoberranzan).
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:00 pm

Please reread what I wrote, I was comparing different languages in the real world (Spanish vs Italian), to different languages in FR ( Elven vs Drow).

And comparing dialects of the real world (Mexican Spanish vs Castellano, Spanish from Spain) to FR dialects (Drow spoken from Guallidurth vs Drow spoken from Menzoberranzan).

I can see that but it is irrelevant to the question in hand. We are not discussing differences between drow dialects in drow cities.

The FR Underdark Sourcebook , which should be the prime source in UD Lore (unless superseded by Server Lore) states that there is NO SEPARATE DROW LANGUAGE.
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:38 pm

RACES OF FAERUN also says that there is NO DROW LANGUAGE

It says that:
"Drow speak Elven, Undercommon and a language appropriate to their native region. Those with the time or inclination learn Drow Sign Language or languages spoken by beings that settle nearby. Drow also learn common languages spoken on the surface near the entrances to their particular corner of the Underdark, such as the Illuskan language."

We can see from this last sentence that Faerun is a much more cosmopolitan and mixed culturally world than many people online tend to think. This is very similar to the medieval and ancient worlds in our history.
DirtyGoblin
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby DirtyGoblin Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:47 pm

So an elf and a dark elf speaking, would be like a Mexican and a Spaniard speaking. There's some words and intonations that don't sync up, but in general they can carry a conversation.
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:36 pm

So an elf and a dark elf speaking, would be like a Mexican and a Spaniard speaking. There's some words and intonations that don't sync up, but in general they can carry a conversation.
Technically yes, Mexican spanish might be described as a dialectic of Spanish but with modern western cultural exchange i would guess they are not very different from each other. I think Geordie English is more different from English than those two. So i would guess there are quite a few differences in pronunciation and vocabulary between Elven and the Drow dialect but that they are still 'mutually comprehensible' - the definition of a dialect.
deserk
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby deserk Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:17 pm

It would be great if 1 language slot was reserved for regional languages for humans. Technically that free bonus language that we all get IG comes from PnP, except there that slot is reserved for automatic languages (regional languages for humans, race-specific languages for other races). In addition to that you only get bonus languages per INT modifier at character creation.

Personally I would never pick something purely for the sake of convenient utility in this specific PW. Pick something that makes sense for your character. I would suggest most human players pick Chondathan as a regional language (unless something else specific in mind like Calishite Alzhedo, Illuskan, etc), as Chondathan is the second most widespread language in Faerun, and Common technically isn't a proper language, it's more a pidgin smattering of different languages that have evolved into a trade/bartering language. Chondathan is generally the native language for most iconic places in Faerun.

It would be cool to see human PCs utilize regional languages a bit more, and then those stuck-up drow can't understand what we're saying about them. :p
TheSpaniard
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby TheSpaniard Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:39 pm

So an elf and a dark elf speaking, would be like a Mexican and a Spaniard speaking. There's some words and intonations that don't sync up, but in general they can carry a conversation.
This is a moot point, no one is talking about Elves knowing Drow, that makes sense. We're discussing the plethora of races that have no IC reason to know the language: Humans, halflings, gnomes, etc. . . Not to say that those races can't learn the languages, but it needs to be done with careful consideration and an explanation that suspends disbelief.
Jentorei
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Re: Languages you should, and should not, know

Postby Jentorei Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:33 pm

Drow is a language. It's a mix of elven, undercommon and other words picked up here and there. Of course Rapsam had to say I was wrong and give some kind of counter argument, even though learning drow or understanding little bits of drow here and there cuz somebody knows elven isn't the same thing.

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