An invitation for dialogue.

EBA
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby EBA Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:36 pm

Also, team good is nice. That’s a big deal. Team evil drow tend towards being hateful, and people have to specifically want the evil drow experience for them to go that way. Otherwise, why bother? And it is, at least to me personally, exhausting to Rp someone aggressively evil for long periods

I’m not sure how team iron ring is holding up
Moridin
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby Moridin Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:35 pm

Well, like my character both hates slavery(because she was the collared one), and is one of those the promenade is trying to convert However, out in the streets if someone hires her to steal something, or kill someone, or some other shady thing... She most likely won't think twice about it, just ask how much. Maltyrr is not a good character, though she would also be concerned about say a possible plague spreading in the city. Mostly because she doesn't want to be in an area that gets annihilated by the skulls.
Last edited by Moridin on Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BlackmoreKnight
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby BlackmoreKnight Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:39 pm

The Vhaeraun faction was pulled from focus early into the server as we had two male Vhaeraunite drow at most and it was seen as too niche/specific to be a focus. Also it was a third very drow faction. Yes, non-drow can join Lysaen. No, very few would because Team Good probably pays better and won't treat you like a disposable tool.

The Iron Ring is largely seen by players as an enslavement thing and that puts both the potential players and victims in a small pool. It's not fun to be a slave for most people. But as mentioned above there are other options for the Iron Ring to poke at.

And I agree with Frenzied in that his point is still valid even if he chose something that plays well. Being a good player doesn't make your point invalid, and if it's such a problem change it. Not that it will matter much at this point as most active PCs will be close-ish to capping out by the time the balance pass happens so free rebuild at least.
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rapsam2003
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby rapsam2003 Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:07 pm

I could see having some fun in the Iron Ring if you focused on the political game, not the slave game. Gain power, make threats, ransom the occasional too-pushy interloper off to their friends to make your point. I'd personally rare, if ever, bother trying to slap a collar on a PC, or even NPC. Let the grunts and dog catchers bother with that business. No, I'd be cozyin' up to some House Drow, or putting the lean on them to get in line with my goals. Making just enough nice with a goodie two shoes or two to pull those strings when and if I had to (Hey, you can always count on idealistic idiots to follow through on their promises, right?). Play it more as a mobster, or politician, than a iron clad grunt slapping irons on opportune targets. Again, harkening back to the pulp setting that is Skullport.
Well, there's two aspects to this.
1) We do need player character slavers. Why? Well, see here: https://skullport.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23
[...]Slavers
Being a slaver is as much a player helper role as it is a background choice. By accepting the Slavers tag and key, you agree to be there to create RP for the Iron Ring slaves and ensure they get the experience they want. You have a lot of IC control over them, so it's extra-important to communicate with the slaves' players OOC about their limits, preferences, and to whom they'd like to be sold. [...]
2) The Iron Ring is also involved, as per lore, in politics and gang stuff. That's actually why Mardak's gang, the Black Bullet Cartel, was formed. To become involved in gang stuff. But that does require a DM to run plots, of course.

And needing DMs is, frankly, a problem for both sides right now...
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edmaster44
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby edmaster44 Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:11 am

You tell me edmaster. People will play will they want to play. Do you think that is an issue, there being more good players than evil in a setting like Skullport? If you do, what do you propose could be done about it?
I'm not the RP police. As long as the players are mature about IC interactions, i couldn't give a flying noodles my dude, but this setting does come with its challenges when it comes too making a character that will fit right in, I made two Neutrals previously and i sort of iced them, or retired them cause i just can't think of any reason why they would be there if most of the factions are either too good or Too evil and wants to profit off the misery of others.
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Chocouatl
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby Chocouatl Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:32 am

I wish to state that if you feel that any member of the staff is using their position to advantage themselves, their friends or is using their position to punish or threaten players or characters who they are in conflict with then please report it to Rhicora. I personally have Very Strong Feelings with regards to members of staff being held to a high standard of responsibility as players.

We can acknowledge that some characters are mechanically stronger than others without casting blame, accusations or making judgement calls against the players of those characters. They aren't bad players for playing more, having gotten to a higher level, for having a good build or having lucked into a good party composition with the rest of the group they wound up being a part of.

I haven't seen any signs of these characters imposing their will on the server and shutting down the roleplay of other factions or alignments. I haven't seen them ignoring the setting of the server or refusing to roleplay. If it is happening I have not seen it. Everyone on the server who I have interacted with, inside and outside of my character's faction, has been an exemplary roleplayer.

With that out of the way - if there is anything that I have actually done as the player of Ysandra that you feel is impeding your ability to roleplay then please let me know.
ArcaneBumblebee
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby ArcaneBumblebee Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:01 am

I wish to state that if you feel that any member of the staff is using their position to advantage themselves, their friends or is using their position to punish or threaten players or characters who they are in conflict with then please report it to Rhicora. I personally have Very Strong Feelings with regards to members of staff being held to a high standard of responsibility as players.

We can acknowledge that some characters are mechanically stronger than others without casting blame, accusations or making judgement calls against the players of those characters. They aren't bad players for playing more, having gotten to a higher level, for having a good build or having lucked into a good party composition with the rest of the group they wound up being a part of.

I haven't seen any signs of these characters imposing their will on the server and shutting down the roleplay of other factions or alignments. I haven't seen them ignoring the setting of the server or refusing to roleplay. If it is happening I have not seen it. Everyone on the server who I have interacted with, inside and outside of my character's faction, has been an exemplary roleplayer.

With that out of the way - if there is anything that I have actually done as the player of Ysandra that you feel is impeding your ability to roleplay then please let me know.
This is sort of what I was mentioning in Discord earlier today. From bringing forth concerns that the direction the server feels to be going is a bit contradictory to lore and setting and a bit offputting for some groups, people are jumping in very defensive and assuming that they are being singled out... and that blame and accusation is being cast at players of good characters... which... I don't think I've seen happen yet in this thread. And certainly wasn't at all related to anything I said when I first addressed the issue in Discord.
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Chocouatl
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby Chocouatl Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:21 am

When a group of players is being singled out as the problem ("Team Good") it is only natural that players who exist in that group will feel that they are the target of those complaints. The group does not exist independently of the people who are a part of it. Specific players or their characters were also the target of complaints and accusations through the course of the discussion.
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Max Hatchet
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:36 am

Also, team good is nice. That’s a big deal. Team evil drow tend towards being hateful, and people have to specifically want the evil drow experience for them to go that way. Otherwise, why bother? And it is, at least to me personally, exhausting to Rp someone aggressively evil for long periods
OFF ON A DROW ROLEPLAY TANGENT:

i kind of agree on this, ive played Drow a lot over the years, on Myth Drannor on NWN1, on Dalelands on NWN2. Being hateful and negative constantly is exhausting. This is why i think so often drow roleplay does not follow the canon of PnP. ln a PnP game this is more possible as you are sitting in front of your friends and know they are just acting. The thing with online rp is that it can be much more immersing and any negativity very draining. Therefore over the years ive seen most people play CE Lolthite drow as being friendlier than they should probably be played.

My main drow over the years of NWN1 and 2 has been a CE priestess who was NOT overtly cruel and didnt personally like torture. She was also quite 'friendly' and diplomatic. She would use torture etc but would generally get a servant to do it.

My main character here is a CN Drow who (partly thro associations in Skullport) has developed some good inclinations.

lin drow society there must be quite a lot of the CN alignment (10-30%?) And Skullport must attract quite a few CN and CG drow. To my mind conventional Lolthite CE drow would find Skullport rather off putting. Why would they be here rather than Menzo or other 'proper' drow cities? Of course there are some good reasons.

lf things really are looking weak for Lolthites i might play my priestess as an alt.
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Max Hatchet
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Re: An invitation for dialogue.

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:47 am

And not only that, the way the Iron Ring works is not ideal for players either. I recall my slaver interacting with a slave that wanted to work up in the ranks, so that he himself could become a slaver one day. That idea itself may be absurd, but I can understand why a player would conclude that it would be a viable goal for a slave - because what can really be a viable goal for a slave? you are someone else's possession, in paper comparable to a tool - why would anyone expect you to have any goals, least of all would the slavers want to hear about it.

So as a slave the majority of your roleplay is supposed to be along with your slavers - who if I were to roleplay this slaver, wouldn't even want to listen to their "possession", as that would be like talking to lifestock. - I'm not saying that everyone is going to play a slaver this way, but I can understand why it is't so viable to play a slave - you can get to grind your way to 15 and be really powerful, but even when you've slain hundreds of orcs, you are still going to bow down and accept that you are nothing more than someone else's posession.
Well no. l think this limited idea of slavery is not historically accurate.

lf you look at the history of slavery in the ancient world its absolutely FULL of slaves who come to power in their societies. The best example is the Mamluk rulers of Egypt who were originally slave soldiers.

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