Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

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Max Hatchet
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:07 pm

Maybe you just fail to portray drow in the way that the majority have agreed upon as lore friendly, or simply haven't managed to make a drow PC that fits the ideal.

not that i want to make this about me but since you are trying to put me down (after making myself vulnerable after admitting i have made a mistake) i would say:

i know how to play a Drow in a 'lore friendly way' - i was Matron of House Dabel'kith on Dalelands and been playing them in PnP since the 1980s

what i do have a problem with is the festering disease in online play where UNLESS YOU PLAY A DROW EXACTLY LlKE WE SAY YOU ARE DOlNG SOMETHlNG WRONG AND ARE LESS OF A GOOD ROLEPLAYER which shows itself in your statement

this is massively to do with the way that a lot of people seem to regard online play as some sort of competitive test in how well you can conform to some set rules - to my mind a very weird pursuit

to be honest its not just with Drow - this has often applied to elves as well for some reason but not so much for any other races - we have moody halflings, jolly orcs and cuddly dwarves

Drow and Elves are meant to be chaotic and ive always felt that chaotic races should have a HlGH variation in how they express themselves RATHER than conforming to a VERY NARROW RANGE OF BEHAVlOUR

WHY should i want to make a Drow PC - 'that fits the ideal'? i want to do THE EXACT OPPOSlTE - i want to make a Drow that is original and different but still drow -like

why exactly do you think roleplay MUST be about fitting to an ideal?
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minx
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby minx Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:18 pm

And there we are ... can of worms opened.

Perhaps we can refrain from stabbing at fellow players and rather offer constructive help instead of criticizing them (on purely subjective terms) without further advice.
Now playing: Quinifae Arkentys & Penelope Miresprites
khaevil
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby khaevil Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:55 pm

If you play a character with aberrant social behavior and others treat them as a deviant that doesn't make them bad RPers — that makes them good RPers. People are supposed to treat drow as evil. They are supposed to treat warlocks as evil. You can't create a special snowflake and then expect it not to be treated that way.

That you are having push back for being a freak gives me renewed optimism that people might actually RP here. A refreshing change from everyone assuming a warlock is just a seelie fae warlock.
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:17 pm

If you play a character with aberrant social behavior and others treat them as a deviant that doesn't make them bad RPers — that makes them good RPers. People are supposed to treat drow as evil. They are supposed to treat warlocks as evil. You can't create a special snowflake and then expect it not to be treated that way.

When did anybody say that was someone was a 'bad Rper' for treating 'aberrant' others as 'deviants'?
Last edited by Max Hatchet on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DirtyGoblin
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby DirtyGoblin Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:25 pm

Interpret the comment how you like, but drow is simply a race that when you play offstandard, you will be criticized. Constructive or not.
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:30 pm

Interpret the comment how you like, but drow is simply a race that when you play offstandard, you will be criticized. Constructive or not.

what do you mean by 'offstandard'. Who says any race - particularly a chaotic race has a 'standard'. Where is this 'standard' in published canon? This is a paradigm adopted by a proportion of players that many other players have never followed.

by 'criticized' do you mean in roleplay by the attitudes of characters or OOC on this forum etc?
DirtyGoblin
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby DirtyGoblin Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:43 pm

The standard is whatever lore archetype the server/campaign has claimed as canon for the Drow Majority
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minx
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby minx Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:21 pm

Perhaps it could be helpful to remind oneself that the term 'standard' is non-applicable to either the species as a whole (for drow culture has lots of variables as has been described in the lore and depictions of the various drow cities scattered over the underdark), nor to the faiths they adhere to (we have groups representing all of the various deities revered by drow in the Skullport setting), but rather to the more or less general mindset or outlook of the race. Most drow show certain traits and have learned exactly how to behave in certain situations. Yes, their society is chaotic, yet adheres to certain core principles. Quite macabre actually.

So, in retrospect, both of the two previous posters have a point.
Now playing: Quinifae Arkentys & Penelope Miresprites
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby Max Hatchet Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:02 pm

The standard is whatever lore archetype the server/campaign has claimed as canon for the Drow Majority

no, the standard you are talking about is a set of roleplay paradigms about drow behaviour that some players have adopted. This idea you have that there is an 'ideal drow' is not in any 'lore archetype' this server has adopted nor is it in any published canon.

The published canon says things like:

'Most Drow on the surface are evil and worship Vhaeraun, but some outcasts and renegades have a more neutral attitude, and there are even groups of good drow who worship Eilistraee or other deities not of the drow pantheon' - RACES OF FAERUN

'Recently the the drow have begun to extend their influence to the surface in greater numbers than ever before.' - RACES OF FAERUN

'Drow are, on the whole, sadistic, destructive and treacherous...' - RACES OF FAERUN


'With the new expansion into the surface, more drow than ever before are being exposed to the truth on the surface, and many are realizing that life on the surface is much nicer than they were led to believe by the agents of Lolth and her kin. lt is possible with greater acceptance and encouragement that the number of neutral and even good drow on the surface of Faerun could skyrocket in the coming years.' - RACES OF FAERUN

'Drow can be courteous and urbane, even to deadly rivals' - UNDERDARK (FR 3.5)

'The great majority of drow are evil through and through, and most tend towards the chaotic end of the spectrum. Dark elves who turn to good are few and far between.' - UNDERDARK (FR 3.5)

'The Auzkovyn are willing to accept elves, half elves and even Vhaeraun worshiping humans into their clan.' - FRCS

'Cormanthor Drow - bonus languages: Chondathan' - Players guide to Faerun

'...the dark elves of Faerun now prowl about the surface... while many worship Lolth, some have come to the surface to escape the oppression and insane conflicts of the cities she controls and these turn to other deities of the drow pantheon or (more rarely) deities of the surface world' - Lords of Darkness


'Followers of the Masked Lord (Vhaeraun) are encouraged to form surface communities and (in some groups such as the Auzkovyn clan) even intermarry with surface elves of similar temperament, for Vhaeraun believes that the various elven races should stand together to advance the race as a whole' - Lords of Darkness

'Vhaeraun's followers... suffer the least from the infighting often seen in other groups' - Lords of Darkness

'Drow on the surface... can spread out and sample the delights of the surface world' - Lords of Darkness


'Some groups (such as the worshippers of Vhaeraun and especially the Auzkovyn) have ABANDONED their traditional racial hatred and AMONG THE SURFACE DROW THESE ARE ACTUALLY A MAJORlTY (my caps)' - Lords of Darkness


(obviously this server has the right to gainsay any of these quotes)

The vast majority of Drow are evil yes but non-evil types, heretics and renegades are highly likely to make Skullport their destination?

There is no 'standard' or 'archetype' that warrants OOC criticism - 'constructive or not'. There is no 'ideal drow' for roleplay purposes
TheSpaniard
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Re: Does "racism" RP prevent players from grouping up/socializing/developing plots too much?

Postby TheSpaniard Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:44 pm


The vast majority of Drow are evil yes but non-evil types, heretics and renegades are highly likely to make Skullport their destination?

There is no 'standard' or 'archetype' that warrants OOC criticism - 'constructive or not'. There is no 'ideal drow' for roleplay purposes
Perhaps, but when has anyone argued that there can't be good Drow? Or NonLolthite Drow?

You're answering your own question here, so I don't understand your point at all. You can be a good Drow, but don't expect the setting to conform to you. That's what all the replies are about. If someone wants to be a good Warlock, that's fine, but act like a good warlock would act in an evil setting. Don't make a Warlock character that has no worries because you want to have your cake and eat it too. Most Warlocks ignore the fact that in a desperate situation, they traded their SOUL away for immediate and instant power. This is a missed opportunity, there are a lot of interesting thematic implications that come along to a Warlock's downsides, not to mention a lot of content to move a character's plot forward. However, and unfortunately, people seem to gloss over the most interesting aspects of their character sheet and rather focus on bragging about the size of their Attack Bonus.

People complain about these snowflake concepts, like openly good Drow, not because they don't think they can exist; they complain about these concepts because, more often than not, they're executed (no pun intended) poorly. A lot of players that play these concepts have the mentality of, "eating their cake and having it too," instead of trying to RP a character in an interesting, dynamic, or unique way. It's about doing whatever they want (doing everything you want is highly overrated), and fuck everyone else's suspension of disbelief, or the integrity of the setting. And how ass backwards is that?

In a RP server, it's everyone's priority, regardless of the character's involved, to keep up the suspension of disbelief. I rather Balin perish and be permaed killed if it meant suspending disbelief for my fellow players for even a minute, rather than having Balin live forever if it meant that he was a complete and utter snowflake that made RP difficult instead of seamlessly smooth.
Last edited by TheSpaniard on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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